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Author Topic: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?  (Read 3491 times)

Forumite

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Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« on: May 07, 2014, 08:57:18 am »

As I write in the headline, that's my impression so far. On the website I see basically no information about moving to NH from abroad, it's like the possibility is noted, but not appreciated, not expected and not part of anything. Just to be clear: out of around 7 billion non-US-citizens you can count on finding every person you need to reach the goal in a week. The US doesn't have free or unregulated immigration, but could this case at least be addressed? Could there be a section on the main site for at least giving us non-US-citizens an idea about how the FSP feels about us? The way it's arranged right now I do feel that it should be obvious that there are plenty of potential FSP-candidates around the world that are educated, are employed, non-criminals and friendly people in general who also at least have a decent command of the English language. But since this, that should be obvious, is in no way a part of the general discussion I do get the feeling that we are not welcome. Prove me wrong if you want to, but I can't shake this off.

As I already mentioned, the FSP is not in control over laws and regulations regarding immigration, Green Cards and everything related. But could there at least be a written statement somewhere on the main site making it clear that even non-US-FSP-candidates are welcome to give it a shot, and that when the FSP would be established NH would from thereon try to implement or a least work for increased opportunity for non-US-FSP-participants to join in on the fun? I don't see that, and I assume it's not relevant for the FSP to aqcuire support from the rest of the world. If you don't want us there I respect that, I just find it hard to see the logic in pretending that this does not exist, the motivation for non-US-citizens to find a surrounding that fits them better than the potential hellholes they live for at the moment (mine being Sweden).

It would be nice to see what you have to say, as for now I'm a bit disappointed. Hoping for a clarifying discussion.
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MaineShark

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Re: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 09:36:59 am »

The current president of the FSP is an South African immigrant.

I think the lack of information is simply because there's no single answer to questions of immigration; you need to do the research that applies to your particular situation.

The FSP in particular and NH in general are welcoming towards immigrants.
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winterboarder

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Re: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 10:46:07 am »

I'm a Romanian emigrant and came to the U.S. in 1994. It took me 15 years to figure out what America is and how it functions. In those 15 years I went to school, had various jobs and served in the US Navy. All blinded by the mass media indoctrination. For the past 5 years I've been awake and looking for a way to get out of the Socialist Republic of New York. Luckily a Navy buddy turned me on to FSP. Now that I got my BFA in graphic design the time, to move to NH has come. FSP is great research tool to make the move easier and learn about NH.

From what I understand the FSP is not an immigration service. The people that signed up don't really care where you're from as long as you understand what liberty and freedom is. If you want to emigrate to America is on you to find a way to do it. You may ask on the forums but the majority of native Americans have no idea how to help or point you in the right direction.  Don't assume the FSP is excluding immigrants because there isn't enough information on immigration. It is a totally separate issue that most know nothing about and at the end of the day FSP is about moving to NH not the US. I myself don't care what immigration status other people have. It's not my business. Citizen or not you are welcome in my book.
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Forumite

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Re: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 12:33:49 pm »

Thank you MaineShark and winterboarder for your replies.

I realise now that my approach was a bit defeatist and perhaps too accusing, mixed up with an air of asking for a service rather than providing constructive criticism (which actually was my ambition). I am not in any way asking for the FSP to become an immigration service, I more or less wanted to point out the possibilites of marketing FSP globally, for reaching the greatest amount of liberty-minded participants. I still believe that this opportunity is not marketed as much as it deserves, and my query was a way to try to find out the motivation behind this. I assumed this was not something that had just been forgotten about or not observed, I got the image that this was underreported for a reason, and wanted to spark a debate to see what could or might be behind this.

What I was leaning towards suspecting was that the image of the stereotypical (if there is one) non-US-citizen and his expected political leanings was standing in the way of the ambition to promote with full force the FSP globally. To make a strawman of both sides of the spectrum would mean that the typical European is seen as the gun-hating atheist and liberal hippie (who still for some reason might be genuinely interested in the project), or the introvert communist from certain parts of Asia, the non-integrable Third-World citizen, etc etc. I do not believe this is what any of you picture when you consider non-US-citizens, because I'm taking it too far (intentionally, to make my speculation clear as possible), But still I wanted to bring up the question of why this opportunity is not, in my eyes, not as profitably taken into consideration as it could. There is somewhat general advice on the main site for how to move (from one part of the US to NH) and what to do when you're there, but in case I missed it I don't see anything similar for the rest of world. As you guys have already pointed out there can be no general guide for 7 billion potential participants from more than 200 different sovereign nations, all with different rules and regulations regarding immigration - but is there an ambition to, at least in the future, provide something that would be a broad sketch of what one might expect to happen if one plans on joining the project from abroad?

Regarding my strawman of the stereotypical non-US-citizen my point was also to try to debunk that, and rather point out that there could possibly be millions of already-integrated-to-the-situation potential participants all over the world, that today might lose out on even internally brainstorming the idea of joining the project because it seems too far off, in practical terms. Perhaps a general discussion about this could help them feel the urge to investigate further, what they could do to join in. As I said, I assume there are more (in numbers) wholeheartedly motivated potential participants spread out over the globe than there are in the native US-stock in total, and wouldn't it be nice to gain the interest of as many of them as possible? Let's say that even if only a few percent can find their way to the destination and be able to legally stay there, that would still be a huge number in total. To me it seems that would benefit the project immensely.
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winterboarder

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Re: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 02:15:54 pm »

There is nothing that the FSP can gain by hitting the 25k goal besides bragging rights. The website is there to deliver some information about NH and keep a head count. Anyone from everywhere can make the pledge and join. How you get there is up to you. What you do after that is up to you. I think is my responsibility to provide for my life sustaining needs, be it legal, job, housing etc. Once people move, they should be involved in the local politics and further the cause of freedom as it it easier to achieve in NH. It is not an opportunity to be advertised since participation is purely voluntary with nothing to gain. Is just an idea. Anyone can move to NH without being a member of FSP. This is just a bunch of random people that like to live free and coalesced into this idea. There is no incentive spend resources to advertise internationally for the sake of gaining numbers if those pledges can't make it to NH because of immigration issues. Frankly the issue didn't come up to be looked at. It's not discriminating against emigrants, just is not a pressing issue. Should there be a section for non citizens? I think it should. If you like, by all means get in touch with the website people and work with them to put up a section for international people that want to make the pledge.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Free State Project, exclusively for US-citizens?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 03:56:13 pm »

The idea of marketing more to potential immigrants is intriguing. I do think hitting the 20,000 target is important, and all strategies to that end are worth considering. Still, some things to think about:

1) The US has a higher concentration of libertarians than any other country. There are more libertarians in the US than in the entire European Union.

2) The rate of return from those non-US libertarians that do exist will probably be lower than from US libertarians, because of the costs of moving.

Still, those two considerations aren't the only ones. On the other side of the ledger, we've marketed much more to US libertarians, so that pool may be more intensively fished than the pool of non-US libertarians. If there are non-US libertarian publications where we could advertise, that would certainly be worth a try. Perhaps some foreign-language outreach materials?
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism
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