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Author Topic: International Anarchists  (Read 10929 times)

Lt Columbo

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International Anarchists
« on: June 28, 2011, 03:25:31 am »

Just reading some of the posts on this part of the forum is quite depressing for somebody in Europe.  It seems that those in power have really got us all locked down, since when did they take ownership of the planet!?  I should be able to move freely upon this Earth as I wish, as long as I'm paying my way I don't see what the problem is.

I wonder how many activists you're losing in New Hampshire because of these f'cked up emigration laws?  Dare I say it could turn the tide?  Maybe it should be a high priority for liberty seekers within the free state project to accelerate succession at all costs because of this BS?

Oh btw, hi ::) I'm living in Europe, anarchist/libertarian/voluntaryist/voluntary socialist for 3 years.

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MaineShark

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 07:48:20 am »

As long as your belief in socialism is truly voluntary (you will not attempt to prevent others from engaging in capitalism, if they so choose), welcome.

Secession is a touchy subject.  I don't think it could really happen unless there was a civil war going on somewhere else, such that they could not afford to devote the resources to hold a few areas that seceded.  Else... well, we know what happened, last time secession was tried.

Joe
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Lt Columbo

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 09:02:56 am »

Thanks Joe, actually I normally just think of myself as a market anarchist, however if you live in the European Soviet such as I do you'll tend to find that description scares a bunch of people off.  I'm toying with the idea of describing myself as a voluntary socialist to people over here as less shocking way of introducing the ideas of anarchism.

Obviously I'd be preaching to the choir here :)  Wouldn't you say market anarchism could be described this way then; voluntary socialism, after all doesn't the free market employ people allowing them to improve their health, wealth etc?

I'd be willing to try syndicalist ventures but they would have to agree with the NAP.

I love the idea of the Free State Project and hope to come and meet people at the Porc Fest in 2012 so I'm still 50/50 about wanting to live in NH.  I've got family in Florida and California, I don't suppose they'd help me in emigrating would they?



As long as your belief in socialism is truly voluntary (you will not attempt to prevent others from engaging in capitalism, if they so choose), welcome.

Secession is a touchy subject.  I don't think it could really happen unless there was a civil war going on somewhere else, such that they could not afford to devote the resources to hold a few areas that seceded.  Else... well, we know what happened, last time secession was tried.

Joe
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MaineShark

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 09:29:02 am »

Thanks Joe, actually I normally just think of myself as a market anarchist, however if you live in the European Soviet such as I do you'll tend to find that description scares a bunch of people off.  I'm toying with the idea of describing myself as a voluntary socialist to people over here as less shocking way of introducing the ideas of anarchism.

Obviously I'd be preaching to the choir here :)  Wouldn't you say market anarchism could be described this way then; voluntary socialism, after all doesn't the free market employ people allowing them to improve their health, wealth etc?

I'd be willing to try syndicalist ventures but they would have to agree with the NAP.

The question, though, is whether you'll interfere with your neighbors, if they want to be capitalists.  If you describe yourself as a socialist anarchist, here, most folks will assume that you mean you want to force others to engage in socialism, whether they want to or not, that you will ignore their property rights and just take whatever you want, and that you're really just a Statist, in disguise.

If you want to voluntarily engage in socialism with only those who consent to participate, fine.  But if you do want to force others to participate, or steal from them, or turn around and build a State, first chance you get, then this is not likely a good fit for you...

Most folks here accept that some level of socialism is necessary within the family ("sorry, Timmy, your mother and I have talked and decided that you can't have your operation until you get a job and pay for it, yourself" doesn't exactly work).  Very few here believe that socialism can work on any large scale.  But, if you want to get together with some others who believe in socialism and set up an enclave/commune/whatever and do your own thing, we believe in "live and let live."  We'll do our capitalist thing, and you do your socialist thing, and maybe one side will convince the other that their system works best.  The problem is that the overwhelming majority of socialists are perfectly willing and happy to use coercion to force others to participate.  Which is hardly voluntary or anarchic.  If you're among the minority who will eschew coercion, that's fine.

I love the idea of the Free State Project and hope to come and meet people at the Porc Fest in 2012 so I'm still 50/50 about wanting to live in NH.  I've got family in Florida and California, I don't suppose they'd help me in emigrating would they?

I'm not sure whether there would be any benefit in the immigration process to having family here.  Probably depends upon how closely-related they are.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

Lt Columbo

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 09:50:55 am »

I think I said I was a market anarchist?  I agree with the NAP and I'm totally against state coercion, in fact I'm totally against the state.  I'm interested in anarchism principally but if people want to organize in an consensual collective then that's fine by me and if it works then I'll support it.

I don't think property is theft and I don't think mixing work with material is theft either.

What gives you the impression I'm a nasty violent socialist?  I find this intriguing because most of my friends think I'm a nasty violent capitalist! :D

The question, though, is whether you'll interfere with your neighbors, if they want to be capitalists.  If you describe yourself as a socialist anarchist, here, most folks will assume that you mean you want to force others to engage in socialism, whether they want to or not, that you will ignore their property rights and just take whatever you want, and that you're really just a Statist, in disguise.

If you want to voluntarily engage in socialism with only those who consent to participate, fine.  But if you do want to force others to participate, or steal from them, or turn around and build a State, first chance you get, then this is not likely a good fit for you...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 10:00:25 am by Lt Columbo »
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MaineShark

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 09:58:10 am »

I think I said I was a market anarchist?  I agree with the NAP and I'm totally against state coercion, in fact I'm totally against the state!  I'm interested in anarchism principally but if people want to organize in an consensual collective then that's fine by me and if it works then I'll support it.

I don't think property is theft and I don't think mixing work with material is theft either.

If you're good with others doing their own thing, while you do yours, then... like I said above, welcome.

What gives you the impression I'm a nasty violent socialist?  I find this intriguing because most of my friends think I'm a nasty violent capitalist! :D

Nothing.  Just checking.  The overwhelming majority of socialists are nasty and violent (tending towards the fascist side of socialism), so it's worth asking.  Those who live by the NAP are welcome, regardless of what opinions they might have on what will turn out to be the most efficient manner for economies to organize themselves.  It's only those who want to enforce their opinions, rather than convince others by words and examples, who are a problem.  Since it sounds like you aren't going to do that, you should be a good fit.

Do you have any particular concerns about NH that make it "50/50" in your book?  Any questions you'd like answered?

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

Lt Columbo

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 10:18:04 am »

Thats interesting I'm always told by the socialists over here that its the overwhelming majority of capitalists that tend to be nasty and violent.  To me its when collectivism OR capitalism is mixed with the monopoly violence of the state that we start to see problems.

We should be careful and not get bogged down in semantics here, simply I don't believe in coercing people and I do believe in helping people through community.

I don't have any big concerns about NH yet, I'd like to chat on these forums first and then come visit, probably family first then fly up there.  I can see this will be a long term thing for me so I'm taking it slowly but seriously.

Nothing.  Just checking.  The overwhelming majority of socialists are nasty and violent (tending towards the fascist side of socialism), so it's worth asking.  Those who live by the NAP are welcome, regardless of what opinions they might have on what will turn out to be the most efficient manner for economies to organize themselves.  It's only those who want to enforce their opinions, rather than convince others by words and examples, who are a problem.  Since it sounds like you aren't going to do that, you should be a good fit.

Do you have any particular concerns about NH that make it "50/50" in your book?  Any questions you'd like answered?

Joe
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MaineShark

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 10:45:59 am »

You may want to consider a term like "voluntaryist" (which means about the same as "anarchist" - that all voluntary associations are acceptable, and no involuntary ones are - but without the baggage).

If you call yourself a socialist, most folks are going to assume that you want to use violence to coerce others into doing things your way.

I agree that we need to avoid getting bogged down in semantics.  But it's also important to be aware of what others will likely assume from what you say.  Due to the history of socialism, many will automatically become antagonistic towards those who use the term.  It's sort of like talking to someone who speaks another language; you need to make sure not just that what you're saying means the right thing to you, but that the listener will understand you correctly.  It sounds like "socialism" and "capitalism" mean different things where you are, than here, so it's important to make sure that your true meaning isn't lost in translation.

You should probably look into agorism.  Seems like a good philosophical fit, from what you've posted so far.  There's a fairly strong agorist community in NH, dating back well before the FSP, but many folks who have moved due to the FSP have jumped into agorism pretty heavily.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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dalebert

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 01:15:06 am »

There were an impressive number of International visitors to Porcfest this year!  I mean a LOT.  I'm all for brainstorming all kinds of ways to make moving for them possible whether it's finding loopholes in the immigration laws to exploit or even illegal immigration.  The sooner we can make it easier for them to move, the better.

pigpot

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 12:25:09 am »

Just reading some of the posts on this part of the forum is quite depressing for somebody in Europe.  It seems that those in power have really got us all locked down, since when did they take ownership of the planet!?  I should be able to move freely upon this Earth as I wish, as long as I'm paying my way I don't see what the problem is.

I wonder how many activists you're losing in New Hampshire because of these f'cked up emigration laws?  Dare I say it could turn the tide?  Maybe it should be a high priority for liberty seekers within the free state project to accelerate succession at all costs because of this BS?

Oh btw, hi ::) I'm living in Europe, anarchist/libertarian/voluntaryist/voluntary socialist for 3 years.



I don't see why you need to move. Better that and start doing the "Free Keene (NH)" stuff where you currently inhabit the planet Earth. The only way to getting out of total "lockdown" as you put it is to globally move as one mass globally. Keep it in one place and the perceived powers that be have a far greater chance of putting it to sleep. See the invasion of Cuba and how it was supposedly taken from Batista by 14 (I think or around that) original rebels.
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Caue

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Re: International Anarchists
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 04:00:16 pm »

There were an impressive number of International visitors to Porcfest this year!  I mean a LOT.  I'm all for brainstorming all kinds of ways to make moving for them possible whether it's finding loopholes in the immigration laws to exploit or even illegal immigration.  The sooner we can make it easier for them to move, the better.

Do you have any news on this quest? :-P
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