Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 59   Go Down

Author Topic: NH vs WY  (Read 152307 times)

ZionCurtain

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 404
  • I'm a llama!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2002, 07:56:18 pm »

Proposal or not NH is facing a big deficit and are going to raise taxes to solve the problem.
Logged

thewaka

  • FSP Member
  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 263
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2002, 08:07:17 pm »

From the FSP state data page:
How about low dependence on the federal government? NH is #1 among the states we are considering.
How about smallest total government sector? NH is #1 among the states we are considering.
How about smallest state and local government sector? NH is #1 among the states we are considering.

I think these are interesting, however, WY doesn't come out badly in most of the lists I have seen (for instance in the More Criteria thread from Joe) and in many cases is in the top 3 (several times it is first). Another good point for WY is the low population (NH is huge comparatively speaking). It also has reasonable homeschooling laws (NH requires testing or evaluation *every* year).

I realize that the job situation isn't as great as NH and that traveling the entire state for election campaigning will be tough, but WY is currently my top pick. It seems like the best candidate for what the FSP is trying to accomplish.

Diana
« Last Edit: November 11, 2002, 11:08:36 pm by thewaka »
Logged

freedomroad

  • Guest
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2002, 08:29:46 pm »

Quote
Are the tax situations very different in WY or NH?  It's tough to say, and it depends on which types of taxes you "prefer."  
 That is quite true if we are just comparing NH with WY.  Neither has a state income tax.  NH has no sales tax, WY has a 4% rate which is pretty low.  Property tax is the tough one because it varies from area to area even within a state, the best I could do was to find a list that sighted the largest cities in each state after you factor in all the assessment tricks, for WY it is .77% and for NH it is 3.48% those were figures from "96 I'd be thrilled to see anything newer.
  If you are truely going to compare I think you have to figure out the total tax burden per person

WY has a 4% state sales tax.  From the numbers I have seen it averages 5.25% if you add state and local.  WY has some of the very lowest property taxes in the country.  Most of the counties are very low with one being pretty high.  WY has no corporate tax rate.  With low taxes on property and no state taxes in interest or dividend in WY, only real estate is taxed (at a very low rate).

NH has no sales tax and a 5% or less INCOME tax on interest and dividend.  NH has both local and state property tax rates making the property taxes in NH one of the highest in the country.  NH has a high corporate tax rate.  With high taxes on property and state taxes in interest and dividend in NH, most forms of conservative investment are taxed.

Lets compare these states to, TN, the lowest taxed state in the South(east).
State income tax - only interest and dividend
Sate sales tax - 7% + local of 2.25% equals 9.25%
Lower than average property taxes

WY has lower income, sales, and property tax
NH has about same income rate, lower sales, and higher property

If truth is that if the average person from TN moved to NH they would pay more in taxes.  If they moved to WY they would pay much less in taxes.

Income Tax Summary:
1. WY, AK, and SD have no income tax
2. NH and ND have low income tax rates.
3. DE, MT, and ID have average income tax rates.
4. VT and ME have very high income tax rates

Sales Tax Summary:
1. MT, DE, NH, and AK have very low sales tax rates.
2. ID, VT, ME, WY, and SD have low sale tax rates.
3. ND has average sales tax rates.

Corporate Income Tax Summary:
1. WY has no corporate income tax.
2. SD and MT have low corporate income tax rates.
3. AK and ID have average corporate income tax rates.
4. ME, NH, DE, ND, and VT have high corporate income tax rates.

States Ranked by Lowest Income, Sales, and Corporate Taxes
1.WY
2. SD
3. AK
4. NH
5. MT
6. DE
7. ID
8. ND
9. VT
10. ME



Logged

Kelly

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • I had to give up being a llama!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2002, 08:52:50 pm »

  Freedomroad, I am not sure that I would use the system you are using to rate the states, but you are correct in several respects.  I had not factored in the incme tax on interst or dividens for NH.  That might be very important for people who depend on those sources for all or most of their income.  I also did not look at the corporate income tax, this might imply that WY would be more business friendly than NH.
  Does someone have just the stats for what the states took in for revenue from all sources during a given year, then we could determine the cost of gov per citizen.  Not that that would be the end of it because what the government does with that revenue might be an issue as well.
Logged

Michelle

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 748
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2002, 08:53:19 pm »

Code: [Select]
Proposal or not NH is facing a big deficit and are going to raise taxes to solve the problem.
This is our new governor...

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/08022002/news/16986.htm

PORTSMOUTH - Rye Republican Craig Benson is predicting a state budget surplus by the end of fiscal year 2005, if New Hampshire voters choose him and his "Common Sense Plan."

That’s how he plans to relieve donor communities like Portsmouth from what he calls an "onerous" statewide property tax.

Unlike his Democratic opponents, Benson does not believe New Hampshire needs an income tax. The statewide property tax, among other revenue streams, can provide all the money the state needs, he says.

Benson also aims to cut the statewide property tax rate by 10 percent for the 2004-2005 biennial budget.

The statewide property tax is costing the city of Portsmouth millions of dollars each year in money sent to the state government and redistributed to other communities. The state property tax on a $250,000 home is about $1,400 but about $1,000 of that stays in Portsmouth to pay for city schools. Out of a total property tax of $5,000, about $2,500 pays for local schools.

If Benson’s plan were in place today, the same $250,000 home would receive a property tax bill of $4,850. So the tax scheme most Portsmouth residents face today would barely change under Benson. Cutting the statewide property tax by 10 percent reduces the city tax rate by about 60 cents.

For elderly residents, Benson would cap the total property tax at no more than 8 percent of their income. A person 65 and up living in that $250,000 home would pay the full $4,850 only if they were collecting more than $60,625 in annual income. Benson is toying with an elderly tax cap as low as 6 percent.

"The Common Sense Plan will target additional state aid to those students that need it the most," states Benson’s campaign literature. "Until we can be rid of this tax once and for all, the plan will at the very least seek to lower the onerous statewide property tax to provide relief for all New Hampshire residents."

As governor, Benson says he would advocate for a constitutional amendment eliminating the donor-town distinction. He would then organize a constitutional convention and let the voters decide how to pay for their schools.

"It’s time to give the voters a chance to shape their state as they see fit," reads the campaign literature.

In the meantime, Benson says making better use of technology and capping the state’s budget growth at 3 percent will create enough budget surplus - $50 million by 2005 - to end the practice of some towns donating part of their property taxes to other towns.

Operating online will be a big source of savings for state employees.

"We’re really, really far behind," says Benson spokeswoman Kate Whitman. "Pennsylvania and California are just doing some really amazing things online."
Logged
Please join NHLA today! http://www.nhliberty.org With every new member we gain political weight to support liberty-friendly candidates and promote liberty throughout NH.
Support the Liberty Scholarship Fund. Please make a donation today! http://www.lsfund.org

Kelly

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • I had to give up being a llama!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2002, 09:05:40 pm »

  I likely should have gone back to the state research page before I started spouting off. http://www.taxfoundation.org/statelocal02.html the following provides the state and local tax burden by state as a percentage of personal income.  NH is beat by only two states, TN and AK.  WY is next in line and is only 1.2% higher.
Logged

Michelle

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 748
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2002, 09:16:54 pm »

These are the ranking from Liberty Magazine, an issue that came out this past summer.

Quote
Taxes as a percentage of gross personal income:

#1 NH 4.54% - 1st in nation
#2 SD 5.05% - 2nd in nation
#3 MT 7.26% - 28th in nation
#4 WY 7.61% - 31st in nation
#5 ND 7.94% - 34th in nation
#6 AK 8.04% - 36th in nation
#7 ID 8.32% - 39th in nation
#8 ME 8.63% - 43rd in nation
#9 DE 9.19% - 47th in nation
#10 VT 9.57% - 48th in nation

State taxes per capita:

#1 SD $1226/person - 1st in nation
#2 NH $1372/person - 4th in nation
#3 MT $1564/person - 9th in nation
#4 ND $1826/person - 25th in nation
#5 ID $1837/person - 28th in nation
#6 WY $1952/person - 34th in nation
#7 ME $2087/person - 37th in nation
#8 AK $2270/person - 41st in nation
#9 VT $2416/person - 44th in nation
#10 DE $2721/person - 48th in nation
Logged
Please join NHLA today! http://www.nhliberty.org With every new member we gain political weight to support liberty-friendly candidates and promote liberty throughout NH.
Support the Liberty Scholarship Fund. Please make a donation today! http://www.lsfund.org

Heyduke

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
  • I'm a jerboa!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2002, 10:34:35 pm »

Yes, and our new governor also bought the election...where's that article Michelle?  he's worth over $500,000,000 and spent petty cash of $17,000,000 to purchase his first ever elected office...since when did anyone vote for Benson because he was a great guy with solid experience in government?  NEVER.  Benson is a jerk.  I work in IT and while I thankfully have avoided working for either Cabletron or Enterasys, I have many colleagues that have firsthand experience with our wonderful new governor--he was guilty of sexual harrassment--he was guilty of running cabletron into the ground--he's probably guilty of a helluva lot more that was never reported...so why are you deigning to quote campaign promises from a guy who was elected by two things--spending $17 mil., and avoiding an income tax?  

Tell me tell me Michelle?  Which liberal paper shall ye quote next?  The herald or foster's daily democrat??   ;D
Logged
I do not suffer fools gladly

Michelle

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 748
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2002, 10:43:03 pm »

Well, having spent a great deal of time around the campaign and John Babiarz, I believe that the libertarians might have a friend in Craig Benson. He is far from libertarian, but I do think he will help us get some reforms passed; especially around school choice. Time will tell.

He didn't buy the campaign. In fact his expenditures dwindled to very little after the primary. The Dems campaigned on the income tax. It was inevitable that they they would lose.

HeyDuke. Give me a break. I think we can disagree respectfully. Enough with the insults.
Logged
Please join NHLA today! http://www.nhliberty.org With every new member we gain political weight to support liberty-friendly candidates and promote liberty throughout NH.
Support the Liberty Scholarship Fund. Please make a donation today! http://www.lsfund.org

Heyduke

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
  • I'm a jerboa!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2002, 10:49:55 pm »

oh c'mon now--you think I'm insulting you?  perhaps belittling or berating, but far from insulting...

and the reason his expenditures dwindled after the primary is...that it was all over after the primary...NH was going to hand the election to anybody facing fernald/hollingsworth/income tax...

babiarz?  which one again?  rosalie?  john?  sorry...kudos for the effort, but that isn't a third party option by any strecth of the imagination...

that's all...I'm not going to ride you around, but if you want to offer convincing arguments to these folks--you'll have to do better...or be prepared to move...maybe even back to maine? ::)
Logged
I do not suffer fools gladly

Penfist

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 814
  • Work together to build something that lasts.
    • Penfist
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2002, 11:33:06 pm »

Proposal or not NH is facing a big deficit and are going to raise taxes to solve the problem.

You sound pretty convinced about New Hampshire being wrong and Wyoming being right.

What's the deficit in Wyoming?

If we're going to talk about deficits, let's talk about the removal of the gold standard and Social Security IOUs too, since those are both going to haunt this country for the foreseeable future. How are we going to approach those two issues in the Free State?

Isn't debt pretty meaningless now that our currency is no longer backed by any meaningful collateral?

:)
Logged
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
--Thomas Jefferson

ZionCurtain

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 404
  • I'm a llama!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2002, 11:40:01 pm »

Proposal or not NH is facing a big deficit and are going to raise taxes to solve the problem.

You sound pretty convinced about New Hampshire being wrong and Wyoming being right.

What's the deficit in Wyoming?

If we're going to talk about deficits, let's talk about the removal of the gold standard and Social Security IOUs too, since those are both going to haunt this country for the foreseeable future. How are we going to approach those two issues in the Free State?

Isn't debt pretty meaningless now that our currency is no longer backed by any meaningful collateral?

:)
FSP=Free State Project not FCP=Free Country Project
As for the reason I bring up the deficit you can see in the link I provided. They are doing studies on how to raise taxes on businesses to get the 100,000,000 they need to cover on an annual basis.
Logged

Tyler

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
  • Making soap!
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2002, 12:21:31 am »

I'm not much good with facts and figures, but I figure you folks probably have a better shot with Wyoming than you do New Hampshire. It just seems to me that a western state would be more open to outsiders than a north eastern one (I have experience with both and I do believe this to be generally true). I think both states are excellent choices (the only state I would truly advise against moving to is Delaware, or possibly Alaska-simply because half of you seem to have opted out of that), but that your needs are going to be best served out west. Still, you folks will be coming in, if your numbers keep increasingly like they do, during the beginning of a Democractic governor's administration in Wyoming, if you choose it, rather than a Republican elected on a wave of anti-tax revulsion.
Logged
The world is not thy friend, nor the world's law.

Shakespeare Romeo and Juliet V.i

Michelle

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 748
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2002, 07:35:21 am »

Quote
that's all...I'm not going to ride you around, but if you want to offer convincing arguments to these folks--you'll have to do better...or be prepared to move...maybe even back to maine?

HeyDuke - I've been a NH resident for almost 12 years and grew up about two miles over the border into Maine. So you know where I live. What's your point? Unlike some, I am proud of who I am, what I believe, and the stands I will take. I have no intention of hiding in the shadows. So what is your name and where do you live?

So you say you live in NH? If you think it is so bad, exactly what have you done to improve the situation? How much time and effort have you spent trying to secure liberty? How many sacrifices have you made? Or maybe you are just an armchair critic sitting back blaming everyone else for the problems you won't take responsiblity for.

That's it. I like to try and keep my messages positive. This is the only negative post you will see from me to you. Feel free to continue if you wish, but it only reflects on you.
Logged
Please join NHLA today! http://www.nhliberty.org With every new member we gain political weight to support liberty-friendly candidates and promote liberty throughout NH.
Support the Liberty Scholarship Fund. Please make a donation today! http://www.lsfund.org

Michelle

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 748
Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2002, 08:48:36 am »

HeyDuke,

I just read through your other posts and realized what I was missing. You came to this board after seeing the Union Leader article with the specific purpose of trying to make NH look bad and convincing the group to move somewhere other than NH.

I had assumed that you were either a member or were someone seriously contemplating membership.

I am sincerely sorry that you feel the way you do. These people are looking at our state because they (many) admire the state's independence and small government and only want to help make it more so. If you don't fear freedom and liberty, there is nothing to fear from FSP. I am eager to call these people my friends and neighbors and I think that if you gave us a chance you might realize we weren't so bad after all.
Logged
Please join NHLA today! http://www.nhliberty.org With every new member we gain political weight to support liberty-friendly candidates and promote liberty throughout NH.
Support the Liberty Scholarship Fund. Please make a donation today! http://www.lsfund.org
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 59   Go Up
 

anything