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Author Topic: Free Town Project. (Barrington, a Free Town Already?)  (Read 51274 times)

Dreepa

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 09:13:11 am »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.
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Mark D

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 09:21:03 am »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.
and that's assuming that all of the Paul votes were actually tallied.  My understanding is that there was a bit of a problem with that around the state.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2009, 06:02:07 pm »

I live in Barrington, and it is also part of the Seacoast Region.  We voted down every single spending issue, and on top of that cut 300k+ from the
school budget.  We have 5 freestaters in Barrington, and we all attended our deliberative session, and spoke out against higher taxed.  Did you
attend your deliberative sessions?

Just curious Max.  How many freestaters live in Seabrook?  Please don't count Brenden, he is not a freestater, or the 2 folks currently staying
at your place who bought a condo in Rollinsford.

I think that it's a mistake not to count liberty activists, and, although I have considered this to be a major problem from the get go, I will not address the matter here.

I ran detailed analysis on every town within two miles of the ocean (ocean effect towns east of or near I-95, which I consider to be seacoast regions), and Seabrook took first or second in almost every category, from weather to snowfall, from job base to tax rates.  Barrington is 20 miles from the seacoast (according to Mapquest), and its winter lows are actually lower than either Manchester or Concord--not milder like seacoast towns.  Seabrooks average winter low is 14.7 with a comfort index of 53, while Barrington is 12.9, about the same as Manchester.  The biggest issue in winter is the fact that the winds on the ocean effect towns tend to come from the south and/or from the ocean itself.  When the wind is blowing, it is rarely pouring down from Canada.  Barrington is also a higher elevation, and gets a lot more snow than ocean effect towns.

Barrington's property tax rate per thousand is $37 ($3.70 per hundred dollars in valuation) according to http://www.archive.org/stream/annualreportofto194647barr/annualreportofto194647barr_djvu.txt which is about twice Portsmouth's and more than three times the $11.56 per thousand in Seabrook.  For Barrington:

Quote
Average Rate of taxation per one hundred
dollars valuation for all purposes 3.70

Although Seabrook's population is set at 7900 officially, much of that moves south for the winter (many fiscally conservative retirees who weren't here for the presidential primary).  The 76 Ron Paul votes are out of a total of, IIRC, a little over 700 votes.  It was the only town actually on (or next to) the shorline with 11% support for Ron Paul.  Barrington's
Quote
Population in July 2007: 8,405. Population change since 2000: +11.1%
is certainly more of a long term concern than for Seabrook, which is limiting new housing while encouraging commercial development.

I'm sure that Barrington is a nice town otherwise (not sucky like Keene, which sucks BTW), but I have never viewed it as a seacoast town or receptive to any free town migration.  Worse, its voter registration does not indicate strong liberty leanings.  From http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Barrington-New_Hampshire.aspx# 
Quote
55.57% of the people in Barrington, NH are registered as Democrats. 43.56% are registered Republican. Remaining are independent: 0.87%.
  Your own assessment of the town from a few years back (that the folks pretty much vote straight Democrat), and the Dem party's effort (and ability) to keep you from getting elected worried me about the town from the start.  Even Portsmouth leans 51.7 to 48.5% Republican, the same as Seabrook.

Seabrook folks have actually been more positive about freestaters moving in that tax lovers from other areas.  Amongst real ocean effect towns, Seabrook beats the pants of off every town out here.  It is the undisputed king of mild winters in New Hampsha, and beats even most northern towns on the issue of property taxes and zoning.  It's not quite as libertarian as Grafton, but its town government beats any other free town effort that I'm aware of.  In terms of the number of proliberty people already here, there's no question in my mind that this town is the best of the half-the-snow ocean effect towns.  We actually have a couple of proliberty State Reps here (the Perkins' pair), and the police and Seabrook employees are very proliberty.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 06:08:10 pm »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.
and that's assuming that all of the Paul votes were actually tallied.  My understanding is that there was a bit of a problem with that around the state.

You're 100% right.  A number of towns didn't report any RP votes at first.  When those votes were later "found" (perhaps enough missing ballots to beat Giuliani), the state wide totals didn't change.  Mysterious...

The point being that, in my experience, there were a shocking number of Ron Paul signs in people's yards in Seabrook--almost as many as all other primary candidates put together.  They were up in every neighborhood, here.  As far as out of state recruitment is concerned, we have the somewhat prolliberty north shore of Mass to reach out to, as well as Boston LP members and RP meetups, which still have a lot of people.  The other towns being looked at have many more statists within driving distance.  I have found very few statists around southern seacoast-northshore area, but many more around other free town areas.
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Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 06:53:07 pm »

According to the NH Tourist Bureau, which has NH divided into 7 regions, the Seacoast Region consists of Strafford County and the eastern half of Rockingham County.  Many folks who don't live in NH think the Seacoast Region consists of our 17 miles of ocean front only, but that is not accurate. If that was the case the number of freestaters in the Seacoast reigion would be i in Seabrook, and a half dozen or so in Portsmouth.  We have folks in Farmington, Rochester, Dover, Barrington, Nottingham,
Strafford, Exeter, Epping, Hampton, Rolinsford, Somersworth, and Lee  Sorry Max take your beef up with the Tourist Bureau.  I'm sure I missed a few towns. :)
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 07:38:19 pm »

We have five in Seabrook that I know of off the top of my head.  I count activists total, not just those who've moved here as part of the fsp, which would put that total much higher.  Another fair measure is the total number of proliberty people serving in elective office as a percentage of the total.  Including Selectmen, etc, that figure hovers around half in Seabrook (e.g., two of three Selectmen and two of five Legislators), and has been that way for a while.  When you start counting the Seabrook Taxpayer's Association and other activists efforts here promoting liberty, we're just adding to the property rights and taxpayers advocates already here.  Virtually everyone I've met (who lives in town) is proliberty.  That hasn't been true in any other town I've lived in.
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Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 07:39:21 pm »

Barrington's property tax rate per thousand is $37 ($3.70 per hundred dollars in valuation) according to http://www.archive.org/stream/annualreportofto194647barr/annualreportofto194647barr_djvu.txt which is about twice Portsmouth's and more than three times the $11.56 per thousand in Seabrook.  For Barrington:


This is nonsense.  There is not a town in NH with a rate that high, and as for your link, it says nothing.  Barrington Rate...from it's website.
Town rate $ 2.91
Local school  $11.44
State school  $ 2.05
County          R2.19
Total        $18.60

What is your county rate, school rate, town rate, and state school rate.  Please show the whole picture Max.

One common mistake folks make that are not framiliar with NH, and it's various areas is simply to look at a rate and think a place is cheaper.  While not always a general
rule is the closer you are to the ocean, or a lake, and the closer you are to the MA border, the higher the cost of house is.  So you must look at the cost of housing in the
particular area to determine the true cost

I might add that housing is much more affordable in the areas of the Seacoast Region that don't border the ocean.
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freedomroad

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 11:41:07 pm »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.
and that's assuming that all of the Paul votes were actually tallied.  My understanding is that there was a bit of a problem with that around the state.

I'm pretty sure recounts were done most places in question and the original vote counts were pretty accurate.  The problem was that laws were broken with the handling of the votes, not the actual counting.  The votes are real.  Ron Paul really did do better in NH than most other states.

About Seabrook, it is the least expensive of the ocean towns in NH.  Property tax rates are low but some of the houses have high values.  However, a lot of the folks here live in trailers so they really do have low property taxes compared to most of NH.  Seabrook (or really the power plant) also offers more services than the vast majority of towns in NH. 

If I had to live on the ocean, I'd pick Seabrook.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 11:52:11 pm by Keith and Stuff »
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2009, 01:31:04 am »

The average price is the same for both towns, $270k.  More importantly, we are not being charged extra for garbage collection, sewer, recycling, street parking, fines, parking tickets, beach parking, ambulance, and other issues.  Almost everything is bundled in either the property tax or the car tax, both of which are relatively low.  The actual vote totals for proliberty candidates--and the number who are actually getting elected--is much higher than in other parts of the seacoast region, even going all the way out to Barrington.

For Barrington's elected officials
Brown, Larry (D) D, C for 2006
Burke, Rachel (D) F
Cyr, James (D) CT
DeChane, Marlene (D) D+
Oppenheimer, Kay (D) Inc
Perry, Robert (D) D
Srnec, Robert (D) Inc
Vachon, Dennis (D) F
Bickford, David (R) C+ for 2006
Jacky Cilley, St. Senator, CT, D+ for 2006
Barrington also had some B Reps, but as many F Reps in the past.

For Seabrook:
Moore, Benjamin (R) Inc
Preston, Mark (D) Inc
Weare, Everett (R) C+
Webber, James (D) CT (does not sound like he will be in office for very long, according to locals)
Weare, Albert (R) previously C, C+ for2006
Morris, Richard (R) previously C (56.5%), B for 2006
Garrity, Patrick (D) previously D+
Palazo, Frank (R) previously C+
Our two new reps (both Perkins) appear to be proliberty folks, and Seabrook has produced several A and B Reps.
Martha Fuller Clark is one of 13 CT State Senators, but was nearly tossed out last time by Quandt (NHLA 70%), and will probably be booted in 2010.  Seabrook has numerous proliberty and fiscally conservative folks already service in local office, not to mention former LP State Chair Brendan Kelly, who is a Selectman, and who garnered more votes for State Rep than almost any other Libertarian candidate in 2008.  Abul Khan is also a fiscally conservative member of the Board of Selectmen.
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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2009, 03:28:30 am »

I'm exploring different business ideas for when I move. If there is no zoning in Grafton, does that mean I could open a microbrewery (not a brewpub) anywhere there? Most towns want to you be in an area zoned either for a restaurant or a factory (depending on the town). When you say no zoning, is that for businesses also?
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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2009, 05:32:58 am »

Anywhere
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ivyleague28477

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2009, 07:07:39 am »

some places might not be a great idea cuz they're for-ev-er off the beaten path (and you might want customers to be able to access....), but yep - anywhere.
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Mark D

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2009, 08:06:33 am »

Martha Fuller Clark is one of 13 CT State Senators, but was nearly tossed out last time by Quandt (NHLA 70%), and will probably be booted in 2010. 

Please make it so!  She has been such an appalling Senator and enemy of freedom.
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Dreepa

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2009, 08:44:36 am »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.
and that's assuming that all of the Paul votes were actually tallied.  My understanding is that there was a bit of a problem with that around the state.

This is more hype than fact.  A few votes were found but Ron Paul didn't win NH as I have seen some Youtube video think.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2009, 08:56:59 am »

Ron Paul got 76 votes in Seabrook  Population 8500ish.
My town had 81 votes and the population is 5500ish.  And it is full of statists.

Grafton: 57 votes for Ron Paul.  Population: 1200
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