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Author Topic: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists  (Read 113496 times)

lloydbob1

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2005, 08:04:14 pm »


I am an anarchist
I am not a Libertarian

Not Exclusive ;)
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Brien

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2005, 09:43:01 am »

What is this smash the anarchist forum? 

 I would suggest the critically acclaimed book "Anarchy,State, and Utopia" to understand that  the one kind of anarchist society that could remain  without the force of government and with out the force of mob rule  would be anarchy through free association. This is the idea that you agree to a societies rule if you decide not to follow these rules you become an outcast and the people simply won't deal with you.If no one will deal with you then you will leave. These rules include property rights, respect for contract, and respect for self-ownership and the right to defend yourself and your property.Murray Rothbard one of the founders of the Libertarian Party fell into this group.

I don't think this is "smash the anarchism" forum at all.  All I pointed out is that anarchy is really not a viable solution in American modern political reality.  Anyone who believes otherwise is certainly entitled to their "dream" but I think that's all it is in our modern American Society.   I prefer to discuss and exchange viable solutions to the present day make up of American Society, not dreams.
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No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law, and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more......M. T.

Brien

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2005, 10:11:04 am »

I thank my stars that you will never gain any political power or influence in our society.
I don't seek political power, but I would like to influence society. I must be doing it wrong....it isn't working on you.
Thanks for the replies....my volunteerist brothers :D

No Russell, it isn't working on me because you attacked me from the very beginning I posted on this forum.  Strange way to attempt to influence people.  Have you ever heard or read the following statements: 

"I think a compliment ought always to precede a complaint, where one is possible, because it softens resentment and insures for the complaint a courteous and gentle reception."

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't.  You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may.

and just one more:

"We can secure other people's approval if we do right and try hard; but our own is worth a hundred of it, and no way has been found of securing that."

I  assure you I am not the author of these quotations, but I will allow you the pleasure of the research who did write them. :)

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No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law, and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more......M. T.

Brien

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2005, 12:41:48 pm »

I hadn't heard any of those. :)

They were all written by Mark Twain.  ;)
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No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law, and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more......M. T.

AmerTwnCrier

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2005, 10:36:54 pm »

First let me say I'm still not sure if there are 3 pages that I should start on page 3 in order to see the beginning of a discussion.  In any case, anarchy is a subject I see was being discussed.  Hows this for a definition. (It's not mine...I read it in Terra Libra News).  Anarchy does not mean a land without rules...it is a land without rulers. Simple as that.  We have the first 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) as rules...but who needs George and his cronies to do anything but follow those rules and deal with foreigners?
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ThomasPaine

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2005, 10:41:17 am »

I hadn't heard any of those. :)

They were all written by Mark Twain.  ;)

From "The Lowest Animal" by Mark Twain

Man is the only animal that robs his helpless fellow of his country, takes possession of it and drives him out of it or destroys him. Man has done this in all the ages. There is not an acre of ground on the globe that is in possession of its rightful owner, or that has not been taken away from owner after owner, cycle after cycle, by force and bloodshed.

Man is the only Slave. And he is the only animal who enslaves. He has always been a slave in one form or another, and has always held other slaves in bondage under him in one way or another. In our day he is always some man's slave for wages, and does that man's work, and this slave has other slaves under him for minor wages, and they do his work. The higher animals are the only ones who do their own work and provide their own living.

Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and to keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" with his mouth.

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Ward Griffiths

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2005, 03:42:45 pm »

First let me say I'm still not sure if there are 3 pages that I should start on page 3 in order to see the beginning of a discussion.  In any case, anarchy is a subject I see was being discussed.  Hows this for a definition. (It's not mine...I read it in Terra Libra News).  Anarchy does not mean a land without rules...it is a land without rulers. Simple as that.  We have the first 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) as rules...but who needs George and his cronies to do anything but follow those rules and deal with foreigners?
The first 10 amendments to the US Constitution are not rules for citizens to follow.  They are commandments concerning things no government is allowed to do.

The only rule _I_ have to follow is the Zero Aggression Principle, and that's not really a rule but possibly the single natural law that applies to sentients.  It applies despite the State, though with governments around I seem to have to defend myself more often.
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Ward Griffiths    wdg3rd@comcast.net

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  (Denis Diderot)

AmerTwnCrier

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2005, 07:39:17 pm »

You're absolutely right of course, the first 10 amendments do apply to government not to the people.  But they mean nothing unless...insist they be followed.  My main purpose was to defend anarchy, knowing it has so many negative conotations to people. This reply from Joe aka Solitar is what got me to respond.

Anarchism is a great dream -- for a community, nation and planet populated by one person.
Have two people and one of them becomes a leader.
Have three people and two are a tyrannical majority over the third.
Beyond that you get into monarchy, tyranny, aristocracy, oligarchy, democracy, anarchy -- in that viscious circle that Machiavelli described from his experience and knowledge of history.  The first, third, and fifth can be very good; the second, fourth, and sixth often are extremely bad.

Interesting that he didn't even mention communism and thinks democracy is better than anarchy.  He must be a happy person now that socialism/democracy is rampant. Aren't we supposed to be a republic!! Either way, it's nice to be able to communicate with others who are interested in living free and not just waving a flag and feeling good.


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ThomasPaine

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2005, 07:50:16 pm »

The anarchist element within the Libertarian Party is the reason why they will never become a majority party.

Why would the FSP make the same mistake?

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ThomasPaine

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2005, 08:44:07 am »

The anarchist element within the Libertarian Party is the reason why they will never become a majority party.

Why would the FSP make the same mistake?

because we are not a political party and we allow people to be communists or whatever .... just as long as they don't hurt or steal from other people :)

Really? How many communists have signed up? I mean the type of communists who believe you don't have to go through the state ownership of the means of production phase after which the state just withers away?

But isn't the ultimate goal majority state political power? Presumably people are not moving to NH because of the weather!

And because there are not enough anarchists to build a majority party to take power - an paradoxical statement in itself - let alone classical liberals (which btw is the reason why the Libertarian Party will never achieve majority status) you have to deal with our winner-take-all within a geographical area system of voting that mathematically sorts our politics into two major parties - upfront.

How specifically do you think the FSP is conceived to address this issue?

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Russell Kanning

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2005, 09:14:55 am »

Really? How many communists have signed up? I mean the type of communists who believe you don't have to go through the state ownership of the means of production phase after which the state just withers away?

But isn't the ultimate goal majority state political power? Presumably people are not moving to NH because of the weather!

And because there are not enough anarchists to build a majority party to take power - an paradoxical statement in itself - let alone classical liberals (which btw is the reason why the Libertarian Party will never achieve majority status) you have to deal with our winner-take-all within a geographical area system of voting that mathematically sorts our politics into two major parties - upfront.

How specifically do you think the FSP is conceived to address this issue?

I haven't signed up any commies .... I don't keep their company  :)

No ... the FSP doesn't have that as a goal ..... we want lots of liberty mindede people to move to NH to work for a freer society. :)      Some move for weather .... 1 family is from Fairbanks ;D

I personally am trying to get many radical liberty lovers to move to NH and throw off the chains of tyranny through non-violently resisting and refusing to cooperate. You can do that anywhere in the world, but here we encourage each other and are emboldened by larger numbers. :D

I don't think the FSP itself has an answer to that ?.
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